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November 21, 2008

Obama – Clinton ‘08! (Have Pics?)

I want to try an experiment.

As demonstrated in the discussion thread attached to this week's TIME Obama-as-FDR post, Typepad now allows you, the BAG's stellar readership, to post images in the comment section.

So, here's my idea: I'm interested to see what news image you would select to best illustrate the dynamics of Clinton becoming 44's Secretary of State — and why. I would encourage other readers to post their finds also, and then have the discussion (whether you've posted an image or not) as a "compare and contrast" surrounding those selections. I'm not sure how game you are for the collective effort, especially rolling into the weekend before Thanksgiving, but it can't hurt to try. To get things rolling (right after I upload this), I'm going to go into the comment thread and post the image the NYT chose to illustrate this afternoon's article announcing the news.

Enjoy,

Michael

Update: A number of you have written about uploading issues.  You should know that Typepad does not show the graphic when you preview your comment.  Rest assured, though, that if the code is correct, it's there.

  • Michael (The BAG)

    Clinton Obama announcement.jpg
    Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham Clinton campaigning in Florida in October. (Damon Winter/The New York Times)

  • Books Alive

    Wow, the perspective is jolting here. Obama and Clinton in the foreground, the secret service men receding, the planes in the distance, and the line of lightpoles marching into the horizon. Then we have time to look at the animated and expressive faces of Barack and Hillary.
    Meanwhile, back on April 13, things were tense, as this photo shows.
    Photobucket
    Hillary conceded on June 7, my oldest daughter’s birthday. I’m glad I have a mnemonic device…

  • http://www.landsedgephoto.com elfpix

    I hate to be a party pooper but there is a problem with the concept. Iit’s illegal, unless one of us happens to have had the fortune to actually shoot the event, since every image pertaining to matters political is copyrighted usually by people who have enough money to make life really hard – AP, AFP, Getty, Corbis, NYT, Aurura for Time, VII for Time etc.
    Even with a Fair Use disclaimer, we still have to have taken most of the images off the web to put them somewhere so they can be reflected here, because in many cases the urls for the image have long since been killed off by the original publisher, and if not, most of us haven’t tried to retain the url for an image we saw long ago. And putting them somewhere I believe won’t fall under Fair Use.
    Given that we probably can’t locate the images any longer on the web, how would be post them here from our own hard drives?

  • Karen

    Photobucket
    That’s a stunning photo. Very optimistic. Clinton dancing for Obama. Mine is a little more ambivalent.

  • Michael (The BAG)

    elfpix,
    I appreciate your concern and I’ll run the concept by the same copyright lawyer I’ve used since day one in establishing the mission of BNN. He is the general counsel for the Media Bloggers Association and has been working at the forefront of this area of law. And then, I should reiterate, it is just an experiment. Given our mission here is a semiotic one, however, involving a critical analysis of news imagery as it relates to the media sphere, I believe we safely fall under the protection of fair use.

  • Karen

    Elfpix, have you read the statute and it’s exceptions? 17 US Code s. 107 should give you more information.

  • http://www.landsedgephoto.com elfpix

    But I think this one is how it’s really going to go:
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_l8xeX8k9lgo/R6vA26f8pYI/AAAAAAAAAZE/dQ-nwlXEbQQ/s1600/barack%2By%2Bhillary.jpg
    Sorry, cannot figure out the syntax for the image to show.
    Photobucket

  • Michael (The BAG)

    Books and Elf,
    Since The BAG has my full attention tonight — and I’ve had my first chance to play with photobucket — I pictorially enhanced your suggestions. I was also wondering, Books, if your shot was motivated at all by the textual bookends formed by “Messiah College.”

  • http://theforgottenwar.blogspot.com Sergei Andropov
  • Books Alive

    Well, BAG, your notice of the college logo as bookends suggests a caption of the Messiah giving a blessing, followed by his acolyte. I like that interpretation! But I admit that it wasn’t chosen with that idea in mind. I’d done a fair amount of searching to find something I thought suitable for BAG’s challenge. I found it a second time by a GoodSearch on the AP archive for that specific date.
    Thanks for extending your knowledge of this communication skill to our community of posters. What fun it will be to surprise family with an embedded photo in the days to come!

  • Books Alive

    If Hillary is going to take a leading role in the Obama regime, I’ll be watching her choice of colors, much as I did through the primaries. When Bill was elected President, the Chicago papers gave a lot of space to analysis of Hillary’s wardrobe for Inauguration Week, and I followed that reporting slavishly. Of course, that’s done with each new president, but Hillary was treated as a hometown girl in the 1990s.
    Now, she’s a worldwide woman and her facial expressions, as in the closeups from Karen and elfpix photos, as well as body language are going to be preeminent.

  • Karen

    Here’s another I found interesting, but I don’t know where it comes from. Sort of a past, present, future aspect to it, contemplative and revealing as to each character.
    Photobucket
    I’m interested in the uneven physical appearance of Clinton throughout the primaries and after. I don’t know how much of it had to do with makeup or affect, but the intra-dynamic is very interesting.

  • http://flickr.com/photos/nathanf/ Nathan F.

    I took this one at the rally in Orlando. It’s available under Creative Commons, as long as you attribute the photo back to me. Obama and Clinton
    full size here

  • Michael (The BAG)

    An obvious and striking difference between the “NYT announcement shot” and the rest of those posted here is that they emphasize ego, hierarchy or competition. Of course, that’s because they all reflect the campaign (although sometimes the sense of competition seems to be coming from the candidates and shows on their faces while other times it seems more constructed by the photographer through the composition).
    What I’m wondering (and a bit worried about, frankly) is how much the (visual) media will continue to propagate the appearance of tension and competition between 44 and HRC (or 44 and Bill) in order to sell papers or attract eyeballs when it’s not there in fact.
    Still feeling all the competitive energy, the NYT shot with the airplanes seems striking to me just for the sense of detente.

  • http://www.wvablue.com/ Clem Guttata

    This image has appeared many places around the web as, IIRC, it was one of the few with the two of them together for a while. I don’t know when, where or by whom it was taken.
    Obama-Clinton
    I like the ambiguity. Is Obama providing Clinton with advice or direction?
    Yet, it captures Obama in a moment of action, Clinton in a moment of contemplation. She’s trying to fully absorb what he has to say. I see that as the essence of their future relationship.

  • http://nutritionalplastic.blogs.com wendy
  • http://waterbugblog.blogspot.com Rich

    Looking at all of these I am struck by what an attractive couple they are. Each radiates confidence, intelligence, charisma. If they can form a binary star system instead of a collision of stellar objects they will quite powerful together.

  • Michael (The BAG)

    To keep site loading strain to a minimum, I recommend not posting horizontal images over 500 pixels wide or verticals more than 300 wide (and posting thumbnails linking to the full size version). I was also hoping, given the collection we have now, to think about how the set, or particular shots, speaks to the HRC-BHO relationship going forward.

  • http://www.catinbag.blogspot.com Zoey & Me

    I would think if I were to choose it would be a single head shot from the campaign. There are plenty of them around. I think the public is tired of shots with her and O man. This is an interesting experiment. Wish I had whatever you need to put up a fav picture of Hill. I voted for her here in Florida.

  • Books Alive

    Tbe B&W by Nathan is utterly beautiful. The theatrical spot lighting reminds me of a classic Hollywood couple, for example Spencer Tracy and Katherine Hepburn, in a moment of what to call it? Conspiracy? Intrigue?
    We have posted a good sampling of catching the moments when it’s Barack doing the speaking, and Hillary the listening. Yet, in the NYT scene, Hillary appears to be explaining something to Barack. Good to know they have this great track record of sharing ideas!
    How did Damon Winter achieve the angle in his photo? Is this what a kneeling photographer is after? I’ve seen news coverage showing a photographer in a crouch, and I assume it was to take this type of shot.

  • http://www.wvablue.com/ Clem Guttata

    Books Alive — In my comparatively limited experience as a strictly amateur blogger/photographer, I’ve found that sitting on the floor or putting the camera on the ground is frequently necessary to capture an interesting shot. Here’s an example picture of the W.Va. Gov., first lady and Sen. at a campaign event.
    Joe Manchin - Jay Rockefeller - Gail Manchin - Farmington, W.Va.

  • Books Alive

    Thanks for the visual explanation, Clem! That’s a clever shot, and I notice that you added the tag, hat, to identify it. By including the profiles of Mrs. Manchin and Sen. Rockefeller, you’ve really increased the effect of a moment in time.
    I can’t resist another photo of Hillary and Barack. This was in Elizabeth Bumiller’s article in this morning’s NYT. They don’t say, but this was taken during the panel discussion at Yearly Kos in 2007, held at McCormick Place in Chicago. I attended; I got my Obama 08 placard there. Registration was ~$200, so I have since considered that as my $200 Obama sign!
    [URL=http://s404.photobucket.com/albums/pp127/BooksAlive/?action=view¤t=McCormickPlacepanelwithallDems.jpg][IMG]http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp127/BooksAlive/th_McCormickPlacepanelwithallDems.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
    It was about at this point that Obama and John Edwards pinned down Hillary on taking funding from lobbyists. “Lobbyists represent PEOPLE,” stressed Hillary, “and I intend to keep taking their money.”