Acting Lessons

Condi in her rushed, clickety-clack, smiling demeanor, completed her litany of lies to Timmy with this pronouncement “That democracy was breaking out in Iraq”. This really broke me up, until I’m realized that 26 million desperate people are still frantically looking for this fading imaginary democracy while facing a greater crisis in basic living standards since their “liberation” Its time Condi got off her exercise bike and scrounged for food and played piano with a few hours of intermittent electricity. A candle light recital in downtown Baghdad might be a good way for her to join this breakout. She graciously twinkled the keys for the Governor General of Canada recently, why not celebrate Iraqi Freedom with a few movements from Shaharazade ?

Many (most?) Americans do not have to “look away”. They can stare…eyes wide open, and not ’see’. For as the old saying goes…..”there are none so blind….”

When I first saw this photograph, at the originating site, my first reaction was that this was spin for the American public, to reassure us that everything was moving along, nicely. At a glance, the picture, with the headline, a busy person might get the idea that stability was lying in the wings of the Iraqi state.
But, when you look at the expressions on the faces of everyone, front and in the background, there is deep depression and resentment, and maybe despair. I think it is a very sad picture.

I feel challenged by the photo on the top. Why have 4 people raised their right hand and most of the rest are staring to side on the left?

Sorry, one is a leftie?
Is this a roll call or a pledge?

No purple finger this time?
Good propaganda?

One comment laments the lack of speed and ease, while providing no suggestions for improvement. The next laments the lack of vision on the part of “many (most?) Americans”, yet provides no insight of their own. The last provides an evaluation based on a pop-psych, psuedo-therapeutic “reaction” to facial expressions in a doctored photograph.
In the blog world, I hail from sites you would consider to be the incompetent, the blind, and the sad (when not attacking us as the scheming, the racists, the greedy – the enemy). In the real world, I hail from Operation Iraqi Freedom, Baghdad, Iraq.
Why is it that I can never find a lefty website where the comments are anything beyond complaints with no suggestions, verses with no point, or sentimentality with no analysis?
Is cheap and easy the legacy of Liberalism?
JT: Sparking democracy in Iraq is a difficult process. It’s not an Excel spreadsheet; it’s not an i-Pod; it’s not a Starbuck’s order. It is an attempt to bridge a timewarp of history that blends all the worst traits of prehistoric tribalism, 7th-century Islamism, and 20th-century totalitarian communism all rolled into one. Whether or not we should have attempted it is a valid question. Why it isn’t easy is a stupid one. There is pain involved, and in the Middle East, pain is defined as blood, violence, and abject deprivation. This is what “difficult” really looks like.
jonst: Funny, I consider those who oppose my views as simply opposing my views. To belittle their intelligence or capabilities would suggest I was either condescending, arrogant, ignorant, or a combination of all three.
margaret: The men in those photos are trying to form a government over a divided, uneducated, formerly oppressed people quite prone to violence. They have been in the heart of this work for years, and under the threat of imminent assassination the entire time. They are frustrated and exhausted, which is different from “depressed” or “sad”.
Think.

Thanks for the input, orangeducks. Please keep coming back. We here at the BAG are basically just visually “free associating” when we look at the graphics and photos offered here. You are right that this is a kind of “pop psychology” but we find it interesting and thought provoking, even when we disagree with some of the postings.
I also think the picture shows exhausted and brave people. My prayers are with them as the best hope Americans and Iraquis have for peace there. I think the “line-up” configuration, that way they are sitting, is kind of like a jury, or some kind of team photo. They are on the line for Iraq. They make up the team.

orangeducks. orangeducks: Jeepers, Dude! Put down the scimitar! You could hurt someone swinging that thing around. To paraphrase Byron, you are like a wolf coming down on the fold.
I don’t know what other “lefty” sites you visit, but this particular site was established as “a progressive blog dedicated to the discussion and analysis of news images.” In other words, this site is not about action or policy. The Bag puts up images. We analyze the images. This kind of non-verbal analysis is hard to do. Sometimes the analysis is sharp and thought-provoking, sometimes the comments wander, are sentimental or take cheap shots. At its best the images and the conversation are transformational and provoke new ways of seeing and understanding.
But you need to get out of the war zone more often! Please join this party more often–but do come as a member, not as a critic. We would welcome your contributions and perspectives.
As for this thread, I normally wouldn’t respond to this particular post because the conversation isn’t really about the image. But since I’m here, I would submit that the answer to Bag’s question, “why is Bush getting mostly a free pass for his praise of the new Iraqi government,” is that everyone knows how incredibly fragile this coalition is. In the top photo we see eleven serious men, four of whom have their hands raised in the universal symbol of “Yes.” So much for consensus. But this flickering coalition is all that Iraq has, and of course Bush will celebrate any small sign of progress. He is desperate to stop the erosion of his own political coalition. But he isn’t getting a “free pass:” We don’t trust or respect him anymore. But we all sincerely hope that these serious men succeed. Would that Iraq could restablize and find peace!

The first photo looks like something from the sport page, the reunion of a legendary team on the 25th anniversary of their great triumph. Cue Glory Days, cut to commercial.
jt_from_BC makes a good point, the veneer of civility no way makes up for failing to provide the basics — in the 21st century these include working sanitation and power grid.
orangeducks, Operation Iraqi Freedom was a spectacular success, Baghdad fell in just weeks (more than three years ago). At some point not long after the fall of Baghdad the challenge of Iraqi Freedom changed from military (the efficient application of deadly force) to something else, something about putting together a functioning society, something I don’t have easy words to describe. That new task fell to the military by default and the military stepped up because that’s what the military does. But there is nothing in a soldier’s training that prepares him to be a cop halfway around the world, in a culture he doesn’t know, in a language he doesn’t understand.
Who (if anyone) decided this was an acceptable use of precious and finite resources?

orangeducks > here are a few ducks you haven’t quite lined up, historically or factually. I regularly visit The American Enterprise Institute. I must have missed you last week for your comments suggest less and less research is being undertaken there and consequently the rhetoric has become more strident, ridiculous and illusionary.
“.. Sparking democracy in Iraq is a difficult process.” Yes I would agree especially when presented with only two recent events:
“I am strongly in favor of using poisoned gas against uncivilized tribes”– Winston Churchill. I wonder why they resented British bombs and poison gas ?
Asked by a reporter recently why Iraqi politicians argued so much over a new government, President Jalal Talabani quipped: “This is the Iraq our British friends created.” So they are still fighting to get their 1776 this time from the US Empire tokenly assisted by the vulturing remnants of *their former liberators the UK.*
–”7th-century Islamism, and 20th-century totalitarian communism all rolled into one..”
Not enough space on this blog to deal with such a colossal statement, perhaps we might meet on the History News Network some time.
–”uneducated, formerly oppressed people quite prone to violence.” Iraq per capita had the highest Educational standards and Medical services in the entire Middle East with the exception of Israel who are massively subsidized by the USA to maintain known WMD programs and illegal occupation.
–” They have been in the heart of this work for years.”–So true, and they are getting pissed off playing the role of puppets–imagine France suggesting that the USA couldn’t elect a functioning government unless a party had 60 % of the vote and that’s before before dictating the new economic reforms and massive privatization schemes agreed to by such Gucci Crooks as Chalabi and the ex CIA Iraq terrorist Allawi, all unelected at that time.!!!
The Supremes and Diebolt couldn’t find that many purple fingers in America to form a government. In fact voting doesn’t seem to be all that popular in the US. Of those 18-24 years, in 1972–62% voted by 1996 this had dropped to 32%, overall 51 % folks participate in democracy US style. What message does this send to those awaiting ? ballot boxes. What do they think of the slaughter and massive devastation to property and priceless antiquities before these boxes arrive. Read the recent polls in Iraq if you want the answer.
Not complete (“because we don’t do body counts”) but 1100 Iraqi people for certain were killed in April. Translated into percentage how would you feel about 12,518 + 72 US service personnel killed monthly in America ?

orangeducks said: “It is an attempt to bridge a timewarp of history that blends all the *worst traits of prehistoric tribalism,* 7th-century Islamism, and 20th-century totalitarian communism all rolled into one” and “The men in those photos are trying to form a government over a divided, *uneducated,* formerly oppressed *people quite prone to violence.*”
Funny, to me your views embody the tribalism and totalitarianism of uneducated people quite prone to violence. And racism.

Yeah, that “prone to violence” label always annoys me. I live in the Middle East, and it’s very safe (except in countries which have been invaded and occupied). In fact, most of the rest of the world looks at violent crime statistics (not to mention warmongering) from the U.S. and considers it a country “prone to violence”.
Maybe the guys in the picture are looking left because “Don Zal” is over there giving them stage directions.

margaret: The men in those photos are trying to form a government over a divided, uneducated, formerly oppressed people quite prone to violence.
There are more university graduates per head of population in Iraq than in the US.
And quite prone to violence? Who said irony is dead…

wasntme/PT: Site purpose, images, I get it – thanks for the clarification. I was just surfing around came across the site (ref from dailykos [I think], FYI).
PT – great question, including buildup. The options were limited to: 1) don’t go into Iraq, 2) Go in, take down Saddam and the government and then leave Iraq “open”, or 3) take down Saddam and then direct, and later assist, in stabilization (“You break it, you buy it.” – Colin Powell)
We chose #3. The pre-modern idea of vanquish, plunder, and leave is no longer acceptable by the Western standards to which we are compelled to adhere. Furthermore, our memory of Europe’s “punish the enemy” approach after WWI leading to Hitler 20 years later, is contrasted with the post WWII Marshal Plan that aided our most recent and vicious enemies and gave rise to democratic, peaceful, friendly, and highly productive modern Japan and Germany.
These “lessons learned” (and the glorification and simplification of them in our history books) motivate our decision makers. How, when, and for whom these lessons are appropriately applied is the debate. Applying them here in Iraq is stretching the lessons for sure.
The point to me is that we came in swinging and are now trying to lend a hand that will maybe one day result in a hand shake. It may not succeed (it likely won’t from this Iraq effort, in my opinion). But we have tried, with all mistakes and follies, to make this a better place. Doing less would have been “easier”. And?
jt: Define research. I think living in Iraq – not on secure bases, but in “Indian Country” – for 2 years qualifies as some level of research. I think working, traveling, and living with Shiia, Sunni, and Kurdish Iraqis is informative. I think that engaging in construction projects with Iraqis that require creativity, education, and competence is also.
I know it’s not the same as reading about it. I know this because I’ve lost track of how many books I’ve read on this and related subjects. It all depends on who you read – Spencer or Said, right? I’ve read several of both and my intellect, senses, and experiences have brought me to my current thinking – thanks for asking.
Your reference to British colonialism is trite and irrelevant. Your description of a quote from Churchill as “recent” is comical. Your insinuation of the British using poison gas in Iraq today is absurd, unless you count tear gas or pepper spray (not really what Winnie was talking about, was it?).
Your comparison of Iraq’s educational and medical infrastructure with the rest of the Middle East was true – in the 1970’s; I’ve been to Kuwait, UAE, and Jordan since. Also, that’s not really the same as comparing them to the rest of the world, is it? It’s not hard to look like an eagle shile in the midst of turkeys.
There are many engineers and the like here who possess very good technical skills (calculations, memorized engineering principles, etc.). But they lack the most fundamental concepts of common sense and critical thinking. The younger ones (some of them) I work with have soaked up these concepts like sponges and are now just as frustrated as we are about the gross incopetence and corruption we wade through every day. The older ones reject any use for these things – they’re goal is to avoid accountability and instead enhance appearances and image.
Your comparisons between Iraq and the US, vs. a hypothetical France and the US, is absurd. Culture, and the human thinking at the individual level impacted by it, matters. Ditto for your comparison between Iraqi and American voting practices. Not apples and oranges. More like apples and iron ore.
It seems to me that you suffer from the disease of Western ethnocentrism, where the causes and effects of all things among people are based on Western values of borders, medical care, voting, materialistic wants, etc. While the apologists and the propagandists of Islamicists may regurgitate these things to us in order to weaken our resolve and reinforce our recent proclivity towards cultural self loathing and guilt, their motivations in this conflict are based on THEIR values, not ours. You should listen to what the Islamists say to each other; listen to how they motivate themselves and their people. It ain’t about the Bristish Mandate, it’s about God. Religion seems archane to us sophisticants in the West these days, but let me assure you – it is CENTRAL to the existence of Middle Eastern Governments and individuals.
Hence my belief that many of our efforts today in Iraq, guided by Western values, will eventually bear little fruit, and I fear that we will be forced in the future to address these problems in the language of those who seek DIVINELY MANDATED conquest of us. We will be forced to fight or surrender.
gasket: How comforting it must be to have an automatic “off” switch with which to silence anyone with a different point of view than you.
Culture is a collection of human behaviors. As such, cultural criticism is valid. Have you read the Rape of Nanking? If so, is there any room for criticizing the Japanese culture of racial supremacy and imperialsm without saying that their RACE was a cause?
I’m not of the opinion that the Arab race plays a part in their cultural and religious beliefs. I’m of the opinion that their cultural and religious beliefs play a GIANT part in their current behaviors, values, and perspectives.
Less assumption and character assassination; more thinking. You should try that – in my opinion.

Orangeducks: “You should listen to what the Islamists say to each other; listen to how they motivate themselves and their people. It ain’t about the Bristish Mandate, it’s about God.”
I think it’s both.
“Hence my belief that many of our efforts today in Iraq, guided by Western values, will eventually bear little fruit, and I fear that we will be forced in the future to address these problems in the language of those who seek DIVINELY MANDATED conquest of us. We will be forced to fight or surrender.”
I don’t know exactly what those “Western values” are that are in effect in the occupation of Iraq… but it’s interesting how you’ve turned the situation into “us” (you) as the victim who is going to be forced to “fight or surrender”.
“I’m not of the opinion that the Arab race plays a part in their cultural and religious beliefs. I’m of the opinion that their cultural and religious beliefs play a GIANT part in their current behaviors, values, and perspectives”
Of course their cultural and religious beliefs play a giant part. (And that includes the Arabs who are Christian, Jewish, and atheist.)
By the way, there’s no “Arab race”. “Arab” is related to a language, not a race. You can see Syrians with red hair and blue eyes, and Egyptians who are “black Africans”, but they’re all Arabs.
The decline in health care in Iraq has been declining for a long time, not just because of this war, but because of the years of sanctions before that.

Oh yeah – the “prone to violence” bit, irony, etc. Right, Americans are really the violent ones, of course.
Riots with resulting deaths over cartoons in a Danish newspaper.
Riots with resulting deaths over a single (false) claim of denigration of a book in Cuba.
Riots and resulting deaths from two kids in a Paris suburb who run from the cops (without being chased) and electrocute themselves (accidentally).
Riots in Egypt over a ferry boat sinking.
Beheadings in Indonesia of teenage schoolgirls because they are Christian.
Genocide of tent dwellers in Darfur.
The US has protests in the streets against waging war in Iraq. The Muslim countries have celebrations in their streets on the day of 9/11.
They blow themselves up in order to blow up others.
Tens of thousands of rounds of ammo expended into the air over Baghdad every time Iraq wins a soccer game (everyone owns an AK – if there was really a popular revolt against the Americans, you would know it – we’d all be dead).
If you think this is comparable to American culture concerning the use of force and violence, you need to get out more.
Their supreme cultural/political/religious (there is no distinction) icon, Mohammed – their “Ideal Man” as identified and mandated my God Himself – wielded a sword and led armies of territorial conquest. Bin Laden has it right. Islamicists do not “pervert” Islam. It is the reformers of Islam who attempt to pervert a very clear religion into something it is not: “peaceful”. Hence their small, nearly invisible, numbers.
There is no comparison between Western views on violence and war and the Islamic view. None. Nowadays, we wage war when we feel there is no other choice, expect serious political backlash from segments of our population, and cry out in pain at the sight of each and every body bag. They wage war because they are divinely mandated to do so whenever they think Islam will gain from it, and they rejoice in every crop of martrys destined for their personal flock of eternal and regenerating virgins at God’s side.
This strategy has, until 2001, worked wonderfully for them. They’ve keenly capitalized on the West’s PC guilt and self loathing, our fear of violence intruding on our i-Pod downloads and Starbucks service, and our reliance on the accidental oil resources in their possession. now their strategy is on shaky ground with America (yet still thrives and strengthens in Eurabia).
We’re capable of violence; they are prone to violence. There is a difference.
And before anyone brings it up – yeah, I’m generalizing. Such is the nature of cultural, vs. individual, criticism.

orangeducks,
And before anyone brings it up – yeah, I’m generalizing.
You’re rationalizing, you’re projecting, and you’re wrong. There’s no meaningful distinction between “capable of violence” and “prone to violence”. All violence — any place, any time, for any reason — is wrong. There may be times when violence is necessary, when it is unavoidable, but it is always wrong.
This isn’t some bit of rhetorical trickery or a debating point. Try a little experiment: imagine you’re floating invisibly above Omaha Beach on the morning of June 6, 1944; D-day, H-hour. Below an awesome array of ships of every size and shape move in one direction for one purpose, toward deadly beach landings. Both sides have spent years and the resources of several continents on prevailing on this day. As you look down upon all these men and material, seeing all the planning and practice that necessarily precede this formation, ask yourself this simple question: What is the problem for which this action is the answer?
Much as D-day was necessary and unavoidable in 1944, despite all the bravery and sacrifice, the action at Normandy didn’t solve the problem.
If you are stationed in Iraq you’ve got no choice, you’re not a decision maker. But I don’t see anything our nation is doing in Iraq that is solving the problem. I’ve no easy words for what to do. This picture says what I feel.

orangeducks:“It seems to me that you suffer from the disease of Western ethnocentrism… You should listen to what the Islamists say to each other; listen to how they motivate themselves and their people. It ain’t about the Bristish Mandate, it’s about God.”
I agree–ethnocentrism has played a huge role in our failures in Iraq, both in those who opposed the war and those who wanted it. The assumptions & rationalizations that were made going in, the choices that were made about how to fight and the kind of democracy the US wanted to establish there versus what the Iraqis themselves wanted, as well as the resistence by those who opposed the war and criticism of those who may have once supported the war–all of these things were viewed through a Eurocentric lens. I hope, if nothing else, that the Iraq war will have opened the eyes of the US to the reality that the rest of the world does not see as we see.
Actually, I believe that one of the things that BagNewsNotes does very well is analyze this eurocentric lens.
Although I am a liberal, I am getting very fed up with the attitude of my fellow travelers that US culture is always the worst, the most aggressive, the most exploitative, and so on. I am also fed up with the reverse–that the US is exceptional, the best, always right. It is as if we have lost our ability to think complexly and comprehend multiple points of view.
I think it is impossible for a country like the US–in which 57% of the population are unchurched– to imagine a society in which God is pervasive. We also have been socialized to believe in individualism, our form of equality of women and separation of church and state, and these are deep attitudes that are hard to set aside when trying to comprehend a world view in a society like Iraq.
The hope continues to be that having broken something that worked, however brutal Hussein’s regime was, that by staying the course in Iraq the US can buy them time to figure stability out.
The fear, of course, is that we are squandering lives and billions of dollars and making things worse.

The trouble with this thread is that it has been hijacked by an ill-informed, one-sided emotional ranter. orangeducks isn’t “thinking,” as he claims, he’s emoting. There’s a difference. If he were thinking, he wouldn’t have *misread* and therefore missed the points of the first three comments. If he were thinking, there would have to be some consideration given to the contradictory actions of his own country, there would have to be an acknowledgment of the U.S.’s aiding and abetting of political struggles that have now come back to haunt us decades later (surprise, surprise, and on it goes ad infinitum). blackdogbarking can think and make a complex and powerful emotional point, so why can’t orangeducks?
Selectively picking and choosing arguments to bully and dominate doesn’t count for anything but cowardice. It takes some true guts and unpleasant effort to look at one’s own faults and culpabilities. Same is true of looking at the faults and culpabilities of one’s own country. Until such acknowledgments *are* made, progress won’t be.
But the *reason* this thread got off track is because The BAG and the first three commenters said this image paints a bleak picture. Saying things don’t look good is honest. So, what’s wrong with that? Apparently something is, and orangeducks stepped in not only to fault us for it, but to quash the expression, a bizarre peculiarity and favorite pastime of conservatives. I can never understand what’s wrong with honest or critical expression. But it seems to carry a powerful threat.

There is no comparison between Western views on violence and war and the Islamic view. None. Nowadays, we wage war when we feel there is no other choice, expect serious political backlash from segments of our population, and cry out in pain at the sight of each and every body bag. They wage war because they are divinely mandated to do so whenever they think Islam will gain from it, and they rejoice in every crop of martrys destined for their personal flock of eternal and regenerating virgins at God’s side.
Such incisive cultural and historical commentary!
Does the term Orientalism mean anything to you? You just gave us all a textbook demonstration. Edward Said would be snickering in his grave, orangducks.
If you represent the mindset of people working in the Green Zone then god help us all. That you can sit amongst the ruin of US policy in Iraq and reel off such ill-informed nonsense is quite dizzying.
Still, my biggest criticism of you attitude is not moral, but pragmatic: It was worse than a crime – it’s was a mistake. If your attitude infuses the whole US effort in Iraq then it is already over. You sit in that Green Zone because the Shiites see some use for the US still. Once Sistani wants you gone you will leave.

PTate in MN: well said.

orangeducks, its me jt back to plucking 3 birds and hatching an egg ?
you asked “jt: Define research”
-re-search n.1.Scholarly or scientific investigation or inquiry. 2.Close, careful study -http://www.thefreedictionary.com/research
I was interested in your “Indian Country” as this in not a common expression in Canada I located these:
1)Indian Country: US CODE: Title 18, 1151. Indian country define http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00001151—-000-.html
2)Indian Country: In US military slang Indian country is any area where troops can expect to encounter armed opposition, a usage that became popular during the Vietnam War http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_territory
so its # 2″..but in “Indian Country”-for 2 years qualifies as some level of research”–yes as a construction manager and WASP like you I spent two years in ‘a foreign land’(1956-57)in Nunavut=Our Land =The Northwest Territories with Inuit=The People=Eskimos=meat eaters=insult. After more than 400 yrs of insulting them we recently officially did some language correction at least. Fortunately I had no previous knowledge so my interest, notes and observations were mostly unfettered by historical, political or cultural bias. My experience pales compared to what I’ve learned from scholarly, scientific inquires, translations of Inuit poetry, films, photography, sculpture and so on over the past 50 years. In fact I was absolutely shocked to discover that authoritative peer reviewed experts whose works I’d read had never been there, but possessed an incredible grasp of this unique people and their land–so from my level of experience, exposure and involvement which was substantial I would however feel most uneasy pontificating even to my grandchildren. Perhaps you too may share doubts about what level your experiential feelings acquired in Iraq really are of informative value. With all due respects to my US cousins I find that the Japanese or Europeans have a greater knowledge, ask more informed questions as tourists or visitors than most of my American neighbors. I hope you are one of the exceptions and are assisting your colleagues while in Iraq however if you do not speak the language and understand the complexities of nuance this must be extremely frustrating.
Yes it is critically important to read extensively as you have personally done. In 1963 at age 27 I had a sufficient collection of books to open a store and thereafter for the past 43 yrs they are an integral part of my daily regime–so I definitely know where your coming from about books. Noam Chomsky and the late Edward Said, are but two of my go to scholars. Robert Fisk an Arab speaker and a 30 year permanent resident in the Middle East is unique in his understanding of colonial history, has interviewed all leading politicians many times, has sources which even the CIA must envy, hes put in the time pulled no punches and is trusted by friends and respected by enemies, he travels in the red zones more frequently than a dozen western reporters combined. His column appears regularly in The Independent and he is recognized world wide as a reliable authority.
I apologize for not expanding or further clarifying the Churchill quote, from which you said:
“Your reference to British colonialism is trite and irrelevant. Your description of a quote from Churchill as “recent” is comical”
Well, orangeducks “recent” in:
Historical parlance covers these time periods.
The Modern Period, 1789–1914 http://www.bartleby.com/67/toc5.html
The World Wars and the Interwar Period, 1914–1945
http://www.bartleby.com/67/toc6.html
The Contemporary Period, 1945–2000http://www.bartleby.com/67/toc7.html
And how you got *time warped* by the gas comment I found delightfully humorous but then history is not everyones cup of tea or a Bud Lite. So let get back to the great man:
Winston S. Churchill: departmental minute (Churchill papers: 16/16) 12 May 1919 War Office
“I am strongly in favour of using poisoned gas against uncivilised tribes. The moral effect should be so good that the loss of life should be reduced to a minimum. It is not necessary to use only the most deadly gasses: gasses can be used which cause great inconvenience and would spread a lively terror and yet would leave no serious permanent effects on most of those affected.” (his order for dropping poison gas from low flying aircraft was followed as they chased the untermenchen tribes)
This type of military tactic or moral thinking does not strike me as trite.
Have you had time to read ‘The Seven Pillars of Wisdom’ by T.E Lawrence, the short extracts culled for tactical purposes for US military ops in Iraq and the movie don’t quite capture his genius. Would this professional assessment pass political or military muster today ? Suspend all thoughts about the Vietnam quagmire and Iraq for a moment and cogitate on this assessment from a master manipulator and brilliant military leader.
“The people of England have been led in Mesopotamia into a trap from which it will be hard to escape with dignity and honour. They have been tricked into it by a steady withholding of information. The Baghdad communiques are belated, insincere, incomplete. Things have been far worse than we have been told, our administration more bloody and inefficient that the public knows. We are today not far from a disaster.” Those were the words of T.E. Lawrence (of Arabia
fame)in The Sunday Times in August, 1920.
As a Boston Red socks fan you must respect The Yankee Yogi B’s its “deja vu all over again”
And now about that egg
Are you surprised that both Ike and Winnie had similar selective memories when it came to the holocaust
Winston Churchill wrote the six volumes of his monumental work, The Second World War, without mentioning a program of mass-murder and genocide. Maybe it slipped his mind. Dwight D. Eisenhower, in his memoir Crusade in Europe, also failed to mention gas chambers.
If your interested why they sat on this egg, get back to me, I can help.
Should you wish me to purse you other comments I’m willing.
Stay safe In Iraq especially if your in Anbar country

OK,
A tennis racket-wielding octopus I am not, but I’ll give a try on a few of the most pertinent comments:
ummabdulla: I think the some of the more misguided Western attributes to our efforts here include things like the idea of instant Democracy, insisting (for a while) American feminism is included in the Constitustion of Muslim Iraq, assuming that material well-being and attitude are neatly related, etc.
I didn’t bring up the “race” thing – someone else did. Yes, there are many Arabs of the physical and religious characteristics you describe of course. Of course, whether or not a Christian Arab has the same rights as a Muslim Arab is an entirely different matter.
blackdog: I think there is a HUGE distinction between “capable” and “prone to” violence. Aggressive tnedency/defensive capability – totally different. Your question about what problem can possibly justify D-Day is interesting. There may be some survivors (too few) of Aushwitz who could help provide an answer.
Here’s a hypothetical in return: You’re walking home from a softball game, bat in hand, and come across an old lady being mugged by a youth. After puching her in the face and knocking her down, he is kicking her in the stomach to try and make her let go of the goods. You yell at him to stop, he gives a reply that starts with the letter “F”. He’s kicking away. Is it wrong – oh so “wrong” – to stop his attack by using physical force (i.e. violence)? There is a difference between the word “wrong” and the word “terrible”. Violence is always terrible, but certainly not always wrong. Handcuffs and imprisonment are all uses of physical force over others. Do you advocate a society with no law enforcement mechanisms? You can picnic at the front gate of Pelican Bay when they open the doors if you wish – I’ll be hiding.
PTate in MN – You liberal; me conservative. Regarding your comments: Amen, brother.
Floop: I have not lived within the privilaged and protected enclaves of the Green Zone, though I’ve been there many times for meetings, etc. Don’t worry: behind all the checkpoints, vehicle x-rays, canine searches, blast walls, tanks, guns, and guards, your irrational and unrealistic Western PC ideologies still thrive amongst most of those Americans in positions of power (like the entire DOS). Fluffy PC thinking (inspired by the likes of Said) is not, however, the standard mentality of those who live, work, and travel with the locals in Iraq – there’s just too much reality involved.
jt: jt, jt, jt. Touche’. You have, it appears, much more knowledge of Inuits than I do. Other than my “indian country” reference, I see very little comparison between Canada’s NWT in ‘56 and Baghdad in 06, but maybe I’m off base there.
I will also concede that you have read many more books than me. If only it were so that the degree by which one is right was directly proportional to the number of pages one has read from books. As I said, it depends on what you choose to read, doesn’t it? Spencer or Said?
Indian Country here (as in many wars since the American frontier days I’m sure) means areas in a generally hostile place that are outside the protection of military fortifications (bases, camps, etc.). Here, it’s also referred to as living in the “Red Zone” or the “local economy”. Your PC sensibilities notwithstanding (Chomsky – eegads!!!), it is a term used here on occassion to describe those areas where there are no US forces between you and those who wish to cut off your head.
History does not explain everything (as you noted, I’m a Sox fan). One can always find the commonalities of past ages, such as the quote from Sir Lawrence that you inserted (could have easily come from Rummy himself, eh?). But history cannot account for the vast array of variables that differ between each subsequent age.
It sounds like we may be in agreement. I am highly skeptical of the sensibility of what we now attempt (Iraq political reconstruction).
My focus is more in the here and now than yours I think, and my basic point remains untouched: Islam is not a religion of peace – it is physically aggressive by definition. The various back and forth throughout the last 1600 years about who did what to whom when the Western and Islamic worlds have met is just proof of their mutual incompatibility. Anyone who thinks they can blame the entire thing on one side is a fool – there’s blame to be passed around.
But here and now, women in America only get stoned when they have a bong in their hands. Catholics only rise up en-mass and burn and kill when, well, never (imagine a “DaVinci Code” movie, but with Islam as the target. Any wagers on how long Mr. Hanks would have left?).
Christianity had its violent, oppressive periods. Enlightenment allowed for a re-reading of Christianity that allowed it to co-exist (if not fundamentally support) the modern Western ideas of tolerance, compassion, and love of peace.
ME Islam has not experienced anything remotely similar to the Enlightenment. Furthermore, the Qu’ran allows for no revisions and no exceptions, being the direct words of God (as opposed to the Bible being written by men divinely “inspired” by God – huge difference, allowing some room for interpretation and updating). Finally, the Qu’ran is replete with verse upon verse of vanquishing enemies, conquest, killing, systematic religion and sex-based oppression, etc.
Bottom Line: This won’t go away with roadmaps to peace, monetary aid, PC “understanding”, etc., as long as Islam remains in its current form. Islamists want domination in order to fullfill their believes.
This will go away when one side or the other changes fundamentally. Since I like things like freedom of expression, the female form, and government accountability, I vote for the West.
We are the victims of violent Muslim attacks like 9/11. Muslims are the victims of Islam.

orangeducks, do you work for a contractor involved in the reconstruction of Iraq by any chance? And are you physically, literally, *at this very second* located in Baghdad as you write to us? The answers to these questions would shed some interesting light on your opinions.

And if you have such contempt for the people and their culture, what are/were you doing there?

Regarding the pictures:
Is the guy on teh right in the top one the same guy on the left in the bottom one? They look similar and what struck me most is the expression on the guy’s [guys'] face: he looks a bit digsusted in the top one and resigned in the bottom one.
The top one: “Yeah, yeah, here’s me raising my hand. What’s next?”
The bottom one: “*sigh* Here’s me sitting in a meeting. What’s next?”

orangeducks, in response to your “I see very little comparison between Canada’s NWT in ‘56 and Baghdad in 06, but maybe I’m off base there.”
Well your not only off base, your of the subject which was “..but in “Indian Country”-for 2 years *qualifies as some level of research*” so if you reflect on your statement, than you will understand my personal experience questioned the value of such research and concluded by my asking-Perhaps you too may share doubts about what level your experiential feelings acquired in Iraq really are of informative value. So your “Touche” further underlines your lack of attention, as suggested by you fantasy flight when you said- “Other than my “indian country” reference, I see very little comparison between Canada’s NWT in ‘56 and Baghdad in 06, but maybe I’m off base there..so are you off base or not ? Incidentally I have studied extensively both the American and Canadian Native experience and their interpretations of “indian country” from the landing of The Mayflower to our dispatching of the army to deal with US and Canadian First Nation People during the Oka Chrisis in 1990 http://archives.cbc.ca/IDD-1-71-99/conflict_war/oka/ There is still lots of “indian country” smoldering here.
-For convenience do you mind if I refer to you as ODS and me as JT
-ODS-”it depends on what you choose to read, doesn’t it? Spencer or Said ?
-JT it sure does, for a time I thought you were referring to Edmond Spencer (1552-1599) an English poet known widely as the author of ‘The Faerie Queen. As I paid closer attention to your comments and the rational used to substantiate them, I felt it must be. Herbert Spencer (1820-1903) I was delighted as he is constantly referred to by conservatives to anarchists, truly a philosopher for all seasons or most political persuasions. As an anarchist I am happy to Cherry pick with you a conservative and reap fruit from his philosophical tree. But how this relates to Edward Said is puzzling.
-ODS-”Your PC sensibilities notwithstanding (Chomsky – eegads!!!.
-JT-the profundity of eegads !!! strikes me as if I’m listening to Donald Duck is that what you wished to convey.
Hating the “Haters”- Jonah Golberg’s Golberg File On National Review Online
For example, Saturday night, my wife forced me to watch Bill Maher’s HBO show because we’d heard that Andrew Sullivan tore Noam Chomsky apart. That’s not actually what happened. Maher actually did a one-on-one interview with Chomsky. It was more like Maher was granted an audience with Chomsky. Maher’s style was only slightly less deferential than our own Kathryn Lopez’s would be with the pope. Which only makes sense, since Chomsky is something akin to the Black Pope of America-Hatred.
-ODS-”One can always find the commonalities of past ages, such as the quote from Sir Lawrence that you inserted (could have easily come from Rummy himself, eh?)” -JT-your not a part-time comedian by any chance are you. How would an English and Arab scholar translate this Rumsfeld gem into English for starters. The Unknown As we know, There are known knowns. There are things we know we know. We also know. There are known unknowns. That is to say We know there are some things We do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns, The ones we don’t know We don’t know. —Feb. 12, 2002, Department of Defense news briefing If you get some down time try it, and then see if any of your associate Kurds can assist.
-ODS-”It sounds like we may be in agreement” -JT-I’m listening but the sounds are difficult to pick up because of the static online.
-ODS-”My focus is more in the here and now than yours I think”
JT-did you note the first post on this topic, perhaps it was the coffee or some feeling of intensity for-”until I’m realized that 26 million desperate people are still frantically looking for this fading imaginary democracy while facing a greater crisis in basic living standards since their “liberation”
-ODS-”Islam is not a religion of peace”
-JT-you have much work to do brother as an agnostic I’ve taken great interest in the major religions. Source material abounds on the net, but if you prefer to review daily racism in action check in at: ISLAMOPHOBIA: Anti Muslim Racism.
http://www.islamophobia-watch.com/islamophobia-watch/
Take five minutes for this article which may place doubt on that God like pronouncement of yours above. http://www.curledup.com/ornament.htm
Because of time restraints I am unable to respond to the remainder or your comments probably for the same reason you didn’t respond to many of my previous comments in my last post to you. I leave you with this tidbit: First Principles (1862-1903
EdmundSpenser
We too often forget that not only is there “a soul of goodness in things evil” but very generally also, a soul of truth in things erroneous. http://www.english.cam.ac.uk/spenser/maley1.htm
If your still working in the north I’m relieved as my understanding from bloggers in Iraq there is less “indian country” than Baghdad,Anbar or Basra.

Fluffy PC thinking (inspired by the likes of Said) is not, however, the standard mentality of those who live, work, and travel with the locals in Iraq – there’s just too much reality involved.
And which reality would that be? Yours or theirs?

Does Ibrahim al-Jaafari have an official position now that he’s been pushed out as Prime Minister? He seems to have a prominent place in the bottom picture – the Prime Minister’s right-hand man?
As others have noted, no one looks happy, proud, enthusiastic… can’t blame them, I guess.

JT, orangeducks may be referring to Robert Spencer, whom you may not have run across. (And my recommendation is: don’t bother.) His goal in life seems to be to make everyone hate Islam as much as he does; he’s hardly on a level with Edward Said.

ummabdulla, thanks I’m disappointed its unfortunate I credited orangeducks with greater historical and philosophical depth. I totally missed out on this Spencer, a religious right winger and contributor for Fox News. orangeducks assumptions and understanding now make more sense or nonsense to me.
(Is this the one you specifically refer to: Robert Spencer holds a Master’s degree in Religious Studies from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill 1986.) I appreciated your suggestion but I will still attempt to pursue a dialogue as I enjoy analysing the strategy and methods conservatives use in communication, both verbally and pictorially.